Hey Reza,

That's a great point about the armhole being too high so I went back and reassessed. In fact, where I first saw the technique they seem to actually measure the bottom edge of the tape and not the top, I was misremembering the method it seems. That should keep the armhole from sitting too high into the armhole when measuring to the bottom edge instead (I'll make an amendment to my previous reply clarifying the mistake in the event someone sees it and wants to try it but not this reply)

As for getting the shoulder angle and total pad height, that's something I still struggle with frankly. I've seen a few tailors who simply base it off by eye, looking at the neck point and imagining a horizontal line, from that line you go down however much (say 2" one side and maybe 2 3/4" on the other) which depending on the tailor and their experience probably works fine.

For myself I mainly just use a proportional system method for finding the points where the shoulder, cross back and back armhole seams should roughly go then also using my notes about the figuration to determine if I need to add or remove more on the shoulder slope and finishing height.

I'm still personally unsure about measuring and drafting with pads since I don't often do much work with them myself on my own projects, so it'd be interesting to get your perspective on finding the angle + pad.

All the best,

Kai

Hello Kai,

1. Measuring the bottom edge of the tape to get a "deeper" armhole is not very accurate. Tapes vary in width and one never has control over who is working with what tape width.

2. Armhole depths and shoulder angles are incredibly difficult to asses accurately by eye. These will have to be measured directly.

To measure shoulder angle:

Use a level tool app on your smartphone to measure the shoulder angle. Make sure to first put the shoulder pad on the shoulders as it affects this angle.

From your front neck point, draw a vertical line downwards and use this line as your 0 point (or 90º line) to mark the shoulder angle with a protractor.

See illustration below:

To measure armhole depth:

Place a straight ruler under the armpits and hold it parallel to the floor. Make sure the ruler is as high as it can be. The top edge of the ruler will represent the armpit at its highest point.

Next, place the shoulder pad that will be used for the jacket on the shoulders and measure from the highest point of the pad, straight down over the front scye, 5/8 (1.5cm) below the top edge of the ruler.

On your pattern, apply this measure from your front shoulder point straight downwards and that will be the base of your armhole.

Reza

International School of Tailoring

Thanks for the feedback Reza.

So yeah the the string is mostly there to ensure it's sat at the proper height, at least that's what I've come to understand since seeing ones in use then onto making and using my own one, as you said a wide tape also works great and I also use that on occasion too.

From what I've gathered I think the original tool either has multiple tapes or at least the means for multiple tapes to be attached for various types of measurements but to me some seem superfluous and directly linked to some of those older drafts that started getting a bit crazy requiring hyper specialised coded tools only needed for one system.

As for the alternative method, that's actually a great question and one I think I'll have take some time to consider properly about the relation of shoulder height/angle to armhole depth, I suppose generally the lower the shoulder angle the lower we must then consider the placement of the armhole base but then this method like an elastic tape would help establish roughly the location of that provided the tape is parallel with the ground. I hope that manages to address the first question about this method?

Below I've made another rough illustration of how the tape was held around a model like in the video just to make sure it was totally clear, as you see the centre of the tape is placed at the base of the neck and falls forward over the person's front, both ends are then pulled back round under the armpits and held to meet at the back securely and properly parallel with the ground as mentioned before. from here I use a pin on the shirt at the centre back line where the tape ends meet and where the horizontal blue line can be seen on the back view (indicated here by a yellow cross). At that point I remove the tape and from the base of the neck (i.e. where curved red line on the back view) which is where the collar band of a shirt would typically be, I measure straight down to the pinned location to get the location of the scye depth/armhole base.

So for the majority of this method the tape isn't used to take any measurements until the very final stages once the point is established. I may be right in thinking that some have been known to use the total distance of the tape traveling around the upper body like this to make some sort of proportional calculation but I personally don't see how it could be useful at least in how I approach measuring and drafting.

I'd say a pro to this alternative method is that it in a way it simulates a garment key anchor points whereby the a coat would sit properly against the neck and snugly up in against the armhole, another advantage is it looks very technical and a client will really think you know what you're doing 😂

However it's important to make sure the tape isn't loose and hanging low or you may result in an armhole lower than you'd like on a pattern.

EDIT: As pointed out by Reza in another reply, measuring from the nape to top edge of the tape measure would prove to be too high/tight in the armhole. To remedy this, simply measure from the nape, down to the bottom edge of the horizontal tape point on the back. Depending on the width of your tape measure it might be a touch too low, this method isn't exact and will vary from tape to tape so I use it as just an estimate when cutting/drafting my patterns on paper.

Cheers again,

Kai