Okay...I think I understand, though I will go back and watch the videos Reza referenced because this conversation seems to be the WHY behind the HOW, and that ties into Georges' original question. It also seems like a key concept needed to create the "look" a client wants you (the tailor) to achieve. So...🤔

Arms aside, Reza explains that a jacket is a few pieces of various fabric that are cut and sewn together in such a way that it maintains a cylindrical shape vertically and is suspended at the top horizontally. The tricky part comes when a human being has to get inside the damn thing! 🤣

There's a hole in the top, a hole in each side for each arm AND a cut down the front to put it on. That means the tailor has to maintain an even suspension of the fabric that drapes over the front and back of the shoulders, even though the shoulders of the person underneath the fabric slopes downward to each side. That's difficult but there are several ways to handle that. It's the hole in the top and the cut down the front that cause the biggest challenge in maintaining a proper drape across the front.

The collar, yoke, and lapel form the components of a suspension bridge that supports the otherwise unsupported fabric that exists when you essentially cut a hole in the top and separated the front. Without suspension, the two front pieces would simply dangle from the edge of the neck hole. Now, for my admittedly ignorant understanding of the suspension process. 🫣🤣🙈

First, you need to attach something ridged to the front parts that will help support the weight of the dangling fabric AND help maintain the vertically cylindrical shape.

Second, you need something to attach the top edge of the front pieces to that is capable of supporting the weight of the front pieces, so, a tailor runs a narrow ridged piece of fabric around the neck so the neck can support the weight. Between the vertical lift of the yoke and compulsion of the front pieces to curve around the front, the lapels become mostly stylistic, UNLESS there is something that lends structure to the lapels.

Third, the structural fabric attached under the lapels creates the same cylindrical curve around the front as the structure under the front pieces. Together they help each other maintain a bend in the fabric. Like the front pieces, the lapels depend on the yoke for vertical support. When the top button is buttoned, an even suspension of weight is achieved, and the entire front of the jacket drapes cleanly.

That brings me to the amount of curl at the bottom of each lapel when the garment is both buttoned an unbuttoned. Unfortunately, after all that, I still don't have a clue. 🤪 Honestly, if I got that far, and the jacket fit, I'd consider myself lucky and chalk it up to a success. I get that it has something to do with the bias and padding stitches, but I'm still not sure.

I'll go back and watch Reza's videos and I suspect the answer is there. 👍

Hello Georges!

The answer you seek is in these two lessons: Lesson 20 - Relative Layer Length

Lesson 21 - Canvassing Theory

As for buttoned or unbuttoned, both can be achieved if the principles in the lessons above are adhered to.

Reza

International School of Tailoring

The roll of a lapel is created by the way you hold it when pad-stitching. The stitches 'merely' hold that shape in place.

As for the 'open' roll of a jacket's lapel, it's a consequence of canvas being placed towards the bias. As mentioned in another thread, Scholte cut the front canvas towards the bias to create a softer, less structured feel. However, when unbuttoned, the canvas alone couldn't support the weight of the lapel and the fronts would roll open, often down to the next button.

In the Duke of Windsor's case, he mostly wore double-breasted coats, which tend to be always buttoned (open, flapping fronts look odd). So roll wasn't an issue; and in many respects it was an inherent flaw of the drape cut. However, Neapolitan tailoring followed on from Scholte and this open, rolled look became a 'casual -cool' thing.

I get the impression that some modern three-roll-two coats are actually constructed conventionally, but made to look like the canvas is on the bias and that the fronts have rolled open. Ironic if true.

There's a very good Steven Hitchcock video by Kirby Allison where he demonstrates the basic principles of canvas being on the bias.

I'd be interested in hearing the answer to this one as well. I remember Reza talking about it, specifically, making sure the end of the lapel hits the top button. As soon as Georges mentioned this and showed the picture, my thought was some kind of shaped canvas, like that used on the collar but, it might show when pressed.

Reza also talked about the different stitch types, applications, and lengths, but I never thought of using stitch length to bend fabric.

I'm guessing the roll is set by ironing, presumably with something between the lapel and the front piece that controls how sharp the bend actually is.

By the way Georges, that's a great looking jacket! 👍